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Surname Edit

Count Belacqua was Lord Asriel's brother. Would they not, therefore, share the same surname? - Amyosaurus 10:17, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily; as noted in one of Shakespeare's plays (I forget which), one of the Earl of Shrewsbury's titles is "Lord Verdun of Alton" (that family used to own Alton Towers), but his actual surname is Talbot. This is probably a similar case. -- RobertATfm (talk) 11:34, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
To clarify the above, the point I was making is that "Belacqua" is probably part of his title (like "Verdun" in te case I cited), not his surname. -- RobertATfm (talk) 11:37, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
You're probably right, but if it were part of the title, why would Lyra use it as her surname? - Amyosaurus 15:51, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
Hello, the following are relevant points:
  • Any surname Lyra shared with her apparent father (Count B) would have been the same surname as Asriel because the two were allegedly brothers - unless the name was a title. However if the name was a title this gives an unnecessary complication to the intentions of Lord Asriel and the Master in lying to Lyra in the first place: note that they told her she was Asriel's niece by his brother, who, reasonably, would share his name and therefore Lyra could share the surname of Asriel whilst growing up, and not his sister, who would have been married and given Lyra some other man's name. This also implies the surname is not a false name or a title - if it were a title, the individual it refers to was non-existent and so it would be worthless when handed to Lyra.
  • Asriel is called Asriel by name, notably by Marisa, a number of times in the series, and film, in moments in which a first name is appropriate - it would be too strange for her to call him a surname. Ergo, Asriel is definitely his first name. Naming conventions re: Lords in HDM are, however, inconsistent - but as inconsistent as they are in the real world. 
  • The name Belacqua means 'pretty water' [or something] and therefore ties in to the whole water-links there are with the naming conventions, e.g. Marisa (van Zee) - this is demonstrative of a theme in Pullman's decision-making re: names and also demonstrates Asriel and Marisa's status as effectively soul-mates. 
  • As per Occam's razor, I think we can conclude that Asriel's surname is Belacqua, until such a time that Pullman tells us otherwise, because the link between Lyra, her apparent father Count Belacqua and Lord Asriel is indicative of the name being a shared one; and this is a reasonable conclusion that fits with the spirit of this wiki avoiding over-complications. Emilykoroleva (talk) 17:22, November 11, 2017 (UTC)
In the TV Episode The Fight to the Death, Lyra says her fathers name is Asriel Belacqua. Does that resolve the Surname debate? {{SUBST:User:Sithjedi/signature}} 19:27, December 16, 2019 (UTC)
Definitely something to take into account but I don't know if we can take this as complete fact seeing as it's not stated clearly in the books. I don't know if Pullman played a part in writing/authorising that - I think we should leave it unless there is a direct source (a book) that can tell us. Thoughts on that? There's an interesting discussion on it here. NightSpeakers - My Blogs! 20:07, December 16, 2019 (UTC)
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